If 3% of Canadians outside Quebec are French, why are there >3% French jobs?

Hi Terry,
Interesting, when I arrived in Canada I had to pay and use my own time
to learn some French. As a native you should have taken advantage at
school. I'd like to get a cash rebate for what I did but it's a waste of
time.

If you worked for the Fed's you'd work for all Canadians not the 97%
living outside Quebec. Even if you did not need French to get a starting
job, you'd soon be bitching that you were missing out on any opportunities
and demanding training at the taxpayers expense. My expense and I need a
tax break not another dependant.

Terry

2003-12-05 04:03:00 UTC

Post by Stan
Hi Terry,
Interesting, when I arrived in Canada I had to pay and use my own time
to learn some French. As a native you should have taken advantage at
school. I'd like to get a cash rebate for what I did but it's a waste of
time.
If you worked for the Fed's you'd work for all Canadians not the 97%
living outside Quebec. Even if you did not need French to get a starting
job, you'd soon be bitching that you were missing out on any opportunities
and demanding training at the taxpayers expense. My expense and I need a
tax break not another dependant.

Huh?

If you had to pay to take French, and you are a landed immigrant, then you
didn't bother to do any research.

If I worked for the feds, I'd be serving ALL Canadian residents including
the Chinese, Greek, English and French. But there is no government funding
for federal government employees other than French. But that's beside the
point - which is that Canadian citizens cannot get into a bilingual position
unless they are bilingual. Over 74% of the bilingual managers outside
Quebec in the Federal government are French first, English second. Yet as I
mentioned, only 3% of the Canadian population reside outside Quebec are
French. And of that 3%, all of them are bilingual, so what's the point of
all this?

It's just like the Twilight Zone...it just doesn't make any sense.

Terry

2003-12-05 04:15:55 UTC

Huh?

If you had to pay to take French, and you are a landed immigrant, then you
didn't bother to do any research.

You stated that if you work for the federal government you work for all
Canadians. What's your point?

There are federal government offices in each province, and in most cities
throughout Canada. With 3% of the Canadian population outside Canada being
French, why is it necessary to provide bilingual services outside Quebec?
Of that 3%, I would think at least 99% is bilingual and can fully comprehend
written and spoken English. There are likely far more Chinese in Canada
that DON'T understand English than there are French who don't understand
English, outside of Quebec.

But it's just a fact - the government jobs require bilingualism. But there
is no program offered by the government to aid people in becoming bilingual.

Even in Quebec itself, and even in Hull/ Gatinuau 30 seconds away from
Ottawa, it is 100% FRENCH and they don't provide services in English at all.
When you call the municipal government there isn't even an option for
English - not a single English word spoken on their telephone system. So
English are deterred from moving to Quebec. But in Ottawa the municipal
government offers services in both official languages.

Here's what I get out of this:
1. The government is providing opportunities for French to get a job and not
English;
2. While the government encourages bilingualism, it does not aid the English
in becoming bilingual;
3. MOST French speakers are bilingual and therefore are not screened out of
the many government jobs available; and
4. I am very frustrated at being screened out of jobs I am qualified for on
the basis that I am not French!

I admitted defeat - I give up. I will BECOME bilingual. Now all I ask for
is assistance to learn French.

Note, I am not on welfare, and I paid for my education myself. I never
received any government loans or grants and never even applied. But now I
require assistance because after earning my BA, having multiple college
certificates and a college diploma, I am still screened out of positions I
am qualified for on the basis of not speaking French. I don't have any more
money, and I need a job! All I am asking for is the government to open up
those jobs slated for French (bilingual) to me!

Note, I said jobs slated for French because over 74% of bilingual positions
in Canada are held by French first speakers.

Terry

Seann

2003-12-05 13:02:20 UTC

A lot of Québecois don't exactly speak "French" either, let alone read or
write it properly. It's like hiring an Alabama hillbilly for job because he
speaks "English". The public service is full of "backwoods" quebecois that
murder both languages, yet "qualify" for coveted managerial and directorial
positions. One needs only to look at the highest office in the land to see
the problem. Chretien can't speak French or English well.

On another note, some recent new Canadian citizens from France wanted to
learn English and didn't qualify for training because they already spoke an
"Official" language. Yet they too encounter the same bilingual dilemma for
jobs. They had to pay out-of-pocket for English training! Plus, the
quebecers don't like the French and seem to have this inferiority complex
about them and would rather hire an Anglophone. Go figure!

opportunities

Post by Stan
and demanding training at the taxpayers expense. My expense and I need a
tax break not another dependant.

Huh?
If you had to pay to take French, and you are a landed immigrant, then you
didn't bother to do any research.
You stated that if you work for the federal government you work for all
Canadians. What's your point?
There are federal government offices in each province, and in most cities
throughout Canada. With 3% of the Canadian population outside Canada being
French, why is it necessary to provide bilingual services outside Quebec?
Of that 3%, I would think at least 99% is bilingual and can fully comprehend
written and spoken English. There are likely far more Chinese in Canada
that DON'T understand English than there are French who don't understand
English, outside of Quebec.
But it's just a fact - the government jobs require bilingualism. But there
is no program offered by the government to aid people in becoming bilingual.
Even in Quebec itself, and even in Hull/ Gatinuau 30 seconds away from
Ottawa, it is 100% FRENCH and they don't provide services in English at all.
When you call the municipal government there isn't even an option for
English - not a single English word spoken on their telephone system. So
English are deterred from moving to Quebec. But in Ottawa the municipal
government offers services in both official languages.
1. The government is providing opportunities for French to get a job and not
English;
2. While the government encourages bilingualism, it does not aid the English
in becoming bilingual;
3. MOST French speakers are bilingual and therefore are not screened out of
the many government jobs available; and
4. I am very frustrated at being screened out of jobs I am qualified for on
the basis that I am not French!
I admitted defeat - I give up. I will BECOME bilingual. Now all I ask for
is assistance to learn French.
Note, I am not on welfare, and I paid for my education myself. I never
received any government loans or grants and never even applied. But now I
require assistance because after earning my BA, having multiple college
certificates and a college diploma, I am still screened out of positions I
am qualified for on the basis of not speaking French. I don't have any more
money, and I need a job! All I am asking for is the government to open up
those jobs slated for French (bilingual) to me!
Note, I said jobs slated for French because over 74% of bilingual positions
in Canada are held by French first speakers.
Terry

2003-12-05 17:57:31 UTC

Interesting or maybe ironic enough, I went to a Quebec so-called French
restaurant with several French friends from France a couple years ago, it
turned out my friends couldn't understand them very well and had to
communicate in English. In addition, my friends seemed to not accept Quebec
French language as a real French language. So I am wondering if you can
learn genuine French really in Canada.

Post by Seann
A lot of Québecois don't exactly speak "French" either, let alone read or
write it properly. It's like hiring an Alabama hillbilly for job because he
speaks "English". The public service is full of "backwoods" quebecois that
murder both languages, yet "qualify" for coveted managerial and directorial
positions. One needs only to look at the highest office in the land to see
the problem. Chretien can't speak French or English well.
On another note, some recent new Canadian citizens from France wanted to
learn English and didn't qualify for training because they already spoke an
"Official" language. Yet they too encounter the same bilingual dilemma for
jobs. They had to pay out-of-pocket for English training! Plus, the
quebecers don't like the French and seem to have this inferiority complex
about them and would rather hire an Anglophone. Go figure!

Post by Stan
Hi Terry,
Interesting, when I arrived in Canada I had to pay and use my own

time

Post by Stan
to learn some French. As a native you should have taken advantage at
school. I'd like to get a cash rebate for what I did but it's a waste

Post by Stan
time.
If you worked for the Fed's you'd work for all Canadians not the 97%
living outside Quebec. Even if you did not need French to get a

starting

Post by Stan
job, you'd soon be bitching that you were missing out on any

opportunities

Post by Stan
and demanding training at the taxpayers expense. My expense and I

need

Post by Seann
a

Post by Stan
tax break not another dependant.

being

Post by Terry
French, why is it necessary to provide bilingual services outside Quebec?
Of that 3%, I would think at least 99% is bilingual and can fully

comprehend

Post by Terry
written and spoken English. There are likely far more Chinese in Canada
that DON'T understand English than there are French who don't understand
English, outside of Quebec.
But it's just a fact - the government jobs require bilingualism. But

there

Post by Terry
is no program offered by the government to aid people in becoming

bilingual.

Post by Terry
Even in Quebec itself, and even in Hull/ Gatinuau 30 seconds away from
Ottawa, it is 100% FRENCH and they don't provide services in English at

all.

Post by Terry
When you call the municipal government there isn't even an option for
English - not a single English word spoken on their telephone system.

Post by Terry
English are deterred from moving to Quebec. But in Ottawa the municipal
government offers services in both official languages.
1. The government is providing opportunities for French to get a job and

not

Post by Terry
English;
2. While the government encourages bilingualism, it does not aid the

English

Post by Terry
in becoming bilingual;
3. MOST French speakers are bilingual and therefore are not screened out

Post by Terry
the many government jobs available; and
4. I am very frustrated at being screened out of jobs I am qualified for

Post by Terry
the basis that I am not French!
I admitted defeat - I give up. I will BECOME bilingual. Now all I ask

for

Post by Terry
is assistance to learn French.
Note, I am not on welfare, and I paid for my education myself. I never
received any government loans or grants and never even applied. But now I
require assistance because after earning my BA, having multiple college
certificates and a college diploma, I am still screened out of positions I
am qualified for on the basis of not speaking French. I don't have any

Post by Terry
money, and I need a job! All I am asking for is the government to open up
those jobs slated for French (bilingual) to me!
Note, I said jobs slated for French because over 74% of bilingual

positions

Post by Terry
in Canada are held by French first speakers.
Terry

Sympatico

2003-12-06 01:17:22 UTC

I have a very good friend--French from France--and he has nothing but scorn
for the Quebecois. He told me that quite often French TV will do subtitles
if they're reporting on a Quebec story and interviewing Quebecois. Perhaps
the kindest thing he's said is they're "provincial in their language and in
their linguistic outlook." I don't speak French, but Lord knows I've
listened to it enough. It's a true pleasure to hear someone from France
speak in their language. It's often painful to hear Quebec French--guttural,
sloppy, and loaded with Franglais.

On a slightly different topic, I've been contracting into the Cdn Fed since
1985. My wife has been a civil servant for nearly 30 years. Neither she, nor
I, nor anyone I've ever spoken to can remember a Francophone getting sent to
school to learn English. No one can remember a Francophone not being allowed
a promotion because their English stunk.

Anglophones, esp. for management-level positions, must speak, write, and
comprehend at the "C" level (the topmost of three grades). I can't tell you
how many times I've encountered a Francophone, allegedly bilingual, who I
cannot understand (in English), can't write worth a rat's ass, and has
difficulty understanding English.

Although it grates on my nerves that fed jobs that have zero contact with
the public (which describes the vast majority of government jobs) are
designated bilingual, it positively sends me into seizures that Francophones
are seemingly not held to the same standards of linguistic ability in
English as Anglos are in French.

My two cents....

Post by ih
Interesting or maybe ironic enough, I went to a Quebec so-called French
restaurant with several French friends from France a couple years ago, it
turned out my friends couldn't understand them very well and had to
communicate in English. In addition, my friends seemed to not accept Quebec
French language as a real French language. So I am wondering if you can
learn genuine French really in Canada.

Post by Seann
A lot of Québecois don't exactly speak "French" either, let alone read or
write it properly. It's like hiring an Alabama hillbilly for job because

Post by Seann
speaks "English". The public service is full of "backwoods" quebecois that
murder both languages, yet "qualify" for coveted managerial and

directorial

Post by Seann
positions. One needs only to look at the highest office in the land to see
the problem. Chretien can't speak French or English well.
On another note, some recent new Canadian citizens from France wanted to
learn English and didn't qualify for training because they already spoke

Post by Seann
"Official" language. Yet they too encounter the same bilingual dilemma for
jobs. They had to pay out-of-pocket for English training! Plus, the
quebecers don't like the French and seem to have this inferiority complex
about them and would rather hire an Anglophone. Go figure!

Post by Stan
Hi Terry,
Interesting, when I arrived in Canada I had to pay and use my own

time

Post by Stan
to learn some French. As a native you should have taken advantage at
school. I'd like to get a cash rebate for what I did but it's a waste

Post by Stan
time.
If you worked for the Fed's you'd work for all Canadians not the

97%

Post by Stan
living outside Quebec. Even if you did not need French to get a

starting

Post by Stan
job, you'd soon be bitching that you were missing out on any

opportunities

Post by Stan
and demanding training at the taxpayers expense. My expense and I

need

Post by Seann
a

Post by Stan
tax break not another dependant.

Huh?
If you had to pay to take French, and you are a landed immigrant, then

you

Post by Terry
didn't bother to do any research.
You stated that if you work for the federal government you work for all
Canadians. What's your point?
There are federal government offices in each province, and in most

cities

Post by Terry
throughout Canada. With 3% of the Canadian population outside Canada

being

Post by Terry
French, why is it necessary to provide bilingual services outside

Quebec?

Post by Terry
Of that 3%, I would think at least 99% is bilingual and can fully

comprehend

there

Post by Terry
is no program offered by the government to aid people in becoming

bilingual.

Post by Terry
Even in Quebec itself, and even in Hull/ Gatinuau 30 seconds away from
Ottawa, it is 100% FRENCH and they don't provide services in English at

all.

Post by Terry
When you call the municipal government there isn't even an option for
English - not a single English word spoken on their telephone system.

not

Post by Terry
English;
2. While the government encourages bilingualism, it does not aid the

English

Post by Terry
in becoming bilingual;
3. MOST French speakers are bilingual and therefore are not screened out

Post by Terry
the many government jobs available; and
4. I am very frustrated at being screened out of jobs I am qualified for

Post by Terry
the basis that I am not French!
I admitted defeat - I give up. I will BECOME bilingual. Now all I ask

for

Post by Terry
is assistance to learn French.
Note, I am not on welfare, and I paid for my education myself. I never
received any government loans or grants and never even applied. But

now

Post by ih
I

Post by Terry
require assistance because after earning my BA, having multiple college
certificates and a college diploma, I am still screened out of

positions

Post by ih
I

Post by Terry
am qualified for on the basis of not speaking French. I don't have any

Post by Terry
money, and I need a job! All I am asking for is the government to

open

Post by ih
up

Post by Terry
those jobs slated for French (bilingual) to me!
Note, I said jobs slated for French because over 74% of bilingual

positions

Post by Terry
in Canada are held by French first speakers.
Terry

Richard Webb

2003-12-06 12:39:59 UTC

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 20:17:22 -0500, "Sympatico" <HonestAbe@**ditch_me**yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Sympatico
Anglophones, esp. for management-level positions, must speak, write, and
comprehend at the "C" level (the topmost of three grades). I can't tell you
how many times I've encountered a Francophone, allegedly bilingual, who I
cannot understand (in English), can't write worth a rat's ass, and has
difficulty understanding English.

Programmers joke for handling the business rules for the AAA-BBB-CCC [X]
elements in the profiles dB's of Fed Dept's and Crown Corps.

A = Anglophone
B = Baby talk
C = Carlson Rd Language School.

X = eXception - can actually Wread, Write, Komprehend.

Wretched

NCF Hi-tech Directory "http://www.ncf.ca/~dw413/rw_colst.htm"
6,200+ Local Hi-tech links with 807+ jobpages
@ "http://www.ncf.ca/~dw413/rw_jblst.htm"
***** Corrections ***** & feedback "always" appreciated
Some search engine tests @ "http://www.ncf.ca/~dw413/popular.htm#ag"

Ronnie

2003-12-09 15:44:01 UTC

Here's a thought: Instead of making 97% of the population of Canada learn
French, why not make the 3% francophone population and make them learn
English? This country is so fucking stupid.

Post by Terry
Just a naive question I'm sure...
If 3% of the Canadian population living outside Quebec is French, why is it
that more than 3% of the jobs require French?
And of course the other question is, why isn't the government offering any
programs or assistance for English speaking Canadians to get French language
immersion training?
Lastly, why does the government pay for immigrants who are 100% fluent in
English to receive French language training, BUT the government WON'T pay
for Canadian citizens to get the same training? I was asked to leave a FREE
French class because I didn't have an IMM1000 or permanent resident card.

Post by Terry
only had a Canadian birth certificate, so I could either pay full price or
leave.
Is this REALLY happening??????? Because I feel like I'm inside the Twilight
Zone!
--
Take out GARBAGE to reply!

bobbie

2003-12-09 23:19:12 UTC

You're stupid.

We, francophones, control the federal government. Wake up anglo, we
did learn English in Grade school, what we were doing in grade school?
Blame your parents, idiot!

Some of use even speak Spanish and German. You are so screwed.

Post by Ronnie
Here's a thought: Instead of making 97% of the population of Canada learn
French, why not make the 3% francophone population and make them learn
English? This country is so fucking stupid.

Post by Terry
Just a naive question I'm sure...
If 3% of the Canadian population living outside Quebec is French, why is

Post by Terry
that more than 3% of the jobs require French?
And of course the other question is, why isn't the government offering any
programs or assistance for English speaking Canadians to get French

language

Post by Terry
immersion training?
Lastly, why does the government pay for immigrants who are 100% fluent in
English to receive French language training, BUT the government WON'T pay
for Canadian citizens to get the same training? I was asked to leave a

FREE

Post by Terry
French class because I didn't have an IMM1000 or permanent resident card.

Post by Terry
only had a Canadian birth certificate, so I could either pay full price or
leave.
Is this REALLY happening??????? Because I feel like I'm inside the

Twilight

Post by Terry
Zone!
--
Take out GARBAGE to reply!

Joe Blow

2003-12-09 23:52:51 UTC

Yes we are screwed, with the French running the country we
have no hope in h*ll.

Anyone ever been to Cuba lately? Its overrun with poutine eating
(no lie) back-woods-song-singing booze-swilling-loudmouths. Not
only have they ruined Canada they have destroyed my favorite
vacation spot.

Now the city of Ottawa is going to spend countless hours debating
what is and what is not functionally bilingual. What a waste. So
what on Earth (or in Canada) is going to be our next Francophone
language crisis that's going to occupy WAY too much time!!??

Muchas gracias por nada muchachos y muchachas!

Post by bobbie
You're stupid.
We, francophones, control the federal government. Wake up anglo, we
did learn English in Grade school, what we were doing in grade school?
Blame your parents, idiot!
Some of use even speak Spanish and German. You are so screwed.

Post by Terry
Just a naive question I'm sure...
If 3% of the Canadian population living outside Quebec is French, why is

language

FREE

Post by Terry
French class because I didn't have an IMM1000 or permanent resident card.

Post by Terry
only had a Canadian birth certificate, so I could either pay full price or
leave.
Is this REALLY happening??????? Because I feel like I'm inside the

Twilight

Post by Terry
Zone!
--
Take out GARBAGE to reply!

Soliloquy

2003-12-10 00:11:35 UTC